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	<title>Comments for LanguageLover&#039;s Weblog</title>
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	<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Various thoughts on verbal and written language</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:53:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The importance of letter grades by Scott Erb</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/the-importance-of-letter-grades/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Erb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=241#comment-297</guid>
		<description>LOL!  Yes....&quot;Well, yeah, it&#039;s too bad the tire came off while you were driving on the interstate, but the last car he fixed had three tires come off, so he&#039;s really improving...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL!  Yes&#8230;.&#8221;Well, yeah, it&#8217;s too bad the tire came off while you were driving on the interstate, but the last car he fixed had three tires come off, so he&#8217;s really improving&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The importance of letter grades by languagelover</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/the-importance-of-letter-grades/#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>languagelover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=241#comment-296</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Scott, that rubrics often reflect my own more abstract judgment on an assignment&#039;s quality.  As you said, though, in high school, we have to show more how we arrived at that grade.

On the good side of that, however, we are trying to be more consistent as an English department.  Everyone has heard the story of the student who handed in a paper to one English teacher and got a C, but another English teacher gave it an A, because it was all graded so subjectively.  Because of our Professional Learning Community ideals, we are sharing and talking more about what we are grading for and what we should be focusing on.  Our hope is that it will make us a little more consistent in our grading efforts.  Rubrics help that because it makes sure that we are allotting points to areas that we deem important instead of knocking 50% off a student&#039;s grade because they used the wrong &quot;your&quot; consistently throughout a paper.

I&#039;ve been trying to come up with a way to make grades do what you said about the &quot;whole student.&quot;  It&#039;s a lot harder to do that in high school.  It&#039;s a good idea, however, to focus on improvement instead of simply flat scores.  On the other hand, I&#039;d rather have the mechanic who&#039;s fixing my brakes actually know all of the material, not just show the most improvement.  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Scott, that rubrics often reflect my own more abstract judgment on an assignment&#8217;s quality.  As you said, though, in high school, we have to show more how we arrived at that grade.</p>
<p>On the good side of that, however, we are trying to be more consistent as an English department.  Everyone has heard the story of the student who handed in a paper to one English teacher and got a C, but another English teacher gave it an A, because it was all graded so subjectively.  Because of our Professional Learning Community ideals, we are sharing and talking more about what we are grading for and what we should be focusing on.  Our hope is that it will make us a little more consistent in our grading efforts.  Rubrics help that because it makes sure that we are allotting points to areas that we deem important instead of knocking 50% off a student&#8217;s grade because they used the wrong &#8220;your&#8221; consistently throughout a paper.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to come up with a way to make grades do what you said about the &#8220;whole student.&#8221;  It&#8217;s a lot harder to do that in high school.  It&#8217;s a good idea, however, to focus on improvement instead of simply flat scores.  On the other hand, I&#8217;d rather have the mechanic who&#8217;s fixing my brakes actually know all of the material, not just show the most improvement.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The importance of letter grades by Scott Erb</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/the-importance-of-letter-grades/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Erb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=241#comment-295</guid>
		<description>I teach college, so it&#039;s different in a way, but I always go on a point scale (40 to 100).   I find I can distinguish between an 85 and an 87, even if I can&#039;t say why.

I&#039;ve co-taught a course on &quot;Children and War&quot; many times with an Education professor, and from her I learned all about rubrics.  She seemed shocked when I said I assigned grades based on what I &quot;felt&quot; them to be.   Yet when we did an experiment -- she following her rubric (about ten qualities, each earning a certain number of points) and my subjective assessment -- we came out almost the same on every paper.   My method, though, takes much less time.  

To translate these to letter grades for me comes at the end of the semester.  I take into account the &quot;whole student.&quot;  Did she show improvement?  If so, I might radically discount an early botched exam, feeling she made up for it.  Was she present for all classes (again, in college they can skip)?  If so, then that may give her the benefit of the doubt in a close call.   I tell students that the letter grade number totals (on a normal 90-80 scale) is their base grade.   It will not go down, but can go up if a student shows effort and improvement.  In that, I try to use grades not just as assessment, but as motivation.  

Of course, I can do that stuff in college teaching.   I would never want to have to jump through the hoops and requirements that you all in K-12 endure.  Bureaucracy sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I teach college, so it&#8217;s different in a way, but I always go on a point scale (40 to 100).   I find I can distinguish between an 85 and an 87, even if I can&#8217;t say why.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve co-taught a course on &#8220;Children and War&#8221; many times with an Education professor, and from her I learned all about rubrics.  She seemed shocked when I said I assigned grades based on what I &#8220;felt&#8221; them to be.   Yet when we did an experiment &#8212; she following her rubric (about ten qualities, each earning a certain number of points) and my subjective assessment &#8212; we came out almost the same on every paper.   My method, though, takes much less time.  </p>
<p>To translate these to letter grades for me comes at the end of the semester.  I take into account the &#8220;whole student.&#8221;  Did she show improvement?  If so, I might radically discount an early botched exam, feeling she made up for it.  Was she present for all classes (again, in college they can skip)?  If so, then that may give her the benefit of the doubt in a close call.   I tell students that the letter grade number totals (on a normal 90-80 scale) is their base grade.   It will not go down, but can go up if a student shows effort and improvement.  In that, I try to use grades not just as assessment, but as motivation.  </p>
<p>Of course, I can do that stuff in college teaching.   I would never want to have to jump through the hoops and requirements that you all in K-12 endure.  Bureaucracy sucks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The importance of letter grades by languagelover</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/the-importance-of-letter-grades/#comment-294</link>
		<dc:creator>languagelover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=241#comment-294</guid>
		<description>We have some testing that is just starting to become standard that measures students in that same way.  Quite honestly, I don&#039;t believe many teachers really understand the difference between the different levels.  And if teachers don&#039;t, students certainly don&#039;t.

Good example with the rubric.  I grade that way quite often as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have some testing that is just starting to become standard that measures students in that same way.  Quite honestly, I don&#8217;t believe many teachers really understand the difference between the different levels.  And if teachers don&#8217;t, students certainly don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Good example with the rubric.  I grade that way quite often as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The importance of letter grades by gls</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/the-importance-of-letter-grades/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>gls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=241#comment-293</guid>
		<description>An interesting observation. In South Carolina, we further confuse the issue through the use of a four-point scale as well: SC&#039;s PASS Test (our NCLB accountability measure) measures below basic, basic, proficient and advanced performance. It seems a bit top heavy to me.

I often only use a three-point system on rubrics. I tell students, &quot;Think of 3 as &#039;A&#039;, 2 as &#039;C&#039; and 1 as &#039;F&#039;.&quot; They tend to like the simplicity; I like the relative ease of making and scoring with such a rubric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting observation. In South Carolina, we further confuse the issue through the use of a four-point scale as well: SC&#8217;s PASS Test (our NCLB accountability measure) measures below basic, basic, proficient and advanced performance. It seems a bit top heavy to me.</p>
<p>I often only use a three-point system on rubrics. I tell students, &#8220;Think of 3 as &#8216;A&#8217;, 2 as &#8216;C&#8217; and 1 as &#8216;F&#8217;.&#8221; They tend to like the simplicity; I like the relative ease of making and scoring with such a rubric.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grading by Scott Erb</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/grading/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Erb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=228#comment-292</guid>
		<description>I have no problem putting more emphasis on effort than learning.  That&#039;s because everyone will learn more if they put out more effort.   In fact, I have no problem giving an A to someone who knows the material less than a person who gets a B, if they the one who knows less did more effort.  That&#039;s to motivate the B person to do more, and learn more.  In other words, rewarding effort maximizes learning for everyone...IF the assignments being graded are ones where more work truly enhances learning.  If work is boring assignments that are neglected by those who know more because they are seen as busy work not enhancing knowledge, then the assignments are of poor quality and shouldn&#039;t be given.   To me, the constant effort is to design work in a way that truly motivates learning at all levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem putting more emphasis on effort than learning.  That&#8217;s because everyone will learn more if they put out more effort.   In fact, I have no problem giving an A to someone who knows the material less than a person who gets a B, if they the one who knows less did more effort.  That&#8217;s to motivate the B person to do more, and learn more.  In other words, rewarding effort maximizes learning for everyone&#8230;IF the assignments being graded are ones where more work truly enhances learning.  If work is boring assignments that are neglected by those who know more because they are seen as busy work not enhancing knowledge, then the assignments are of poor quality and shouldn&#8217;t be given.   To me, the constant effort is to design work in a way that truly motivates learning at all levels.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grading by languagelover</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/grading/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>languagelover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=228#comment-289</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the standard theory, RG.  What I&#039;m starting to question is this:  If the student understands the material completely, but doesn&#039;t like to do homework, is it right for him to earn a D?  It would seem to be putting more emphasis on effort than learning, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the standard theory, RG.  What I&#8217;m starting to question is this:  If the student understands the material completely, but doesn&#8217;t like to do homework, is it right for him to earn a D?  It would seem to be putting more emphasis on effort than learning, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grading by renaissanceguy</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/grading/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>renaissanceguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 05:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=228#comment-288</guid>
		<description>People have tried out different ways of assessing student progress for centuries.  No one way seems best.

I want to differ with you a little.  You are compartmentalizing effort and leraning.  In most cases one causes the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People have tried out different ways of assessing student progress for centuries.  No one way seems best.</p>
<p>I want to differ with you a little.  You are compartmentalizing effort and leraning.  In most cases one causes the other.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Teaching Goals by renaissanceguy</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/weekly-teaching-goals/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>renaissanceguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 05:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=230#comment-287</guid>
		<description>It works for many teachers.  It takes self-discipline to stick to it.

I always have my objective in mind, but I am not always meticulous about writing it down and tracking progress specifically on that object.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It works for many teachers.  It takes self-discipline to stick to it.</p>
<p>I always have my objective in mind, but I am not always meticulous about writing it down and tracking progress specifically on that object.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grading by ptola</title>
		<link>http://languagelover.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/grading/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>ptola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://languagelover.wordpress.com/?p=228#comment-286</guid>
		<description>What I don&#039;t like about grades is that there&#039;s only one for every class, which lumps all the different aspects of a student&#039;s performance into a potentially meaningless label. Maybe more accurate - though still not perfect - results would be achieved if students received different evaluations for things like homework consistency, quality of projects, achievements on formal exams, apparent effort, attendance, anything else that seems relevant. Maybe even an indicator of change in performance over the course of the year or semester would be helpful; there&#039;s definitely a big difference between a student who settled for C&#039;s consistently throughout the year and a student who struggled and improved closer to the end of the year.

In general though, even with such a system, so much relies on the teacher. If we&#039;re going to ask for more specific grading systems, we need more of them, and &quot;better&quot; ones, whatever that means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t like about grades is that there&#8217;s only one for every class, which lumps all the different aspects of a student&#8217;s performance into a potentially meaningless label. Maybe more accurate &#8211; though still not perfect &#8211; results would be achieved if students received different evaluations for things like homework consistency, quality of projects, achievements on formal exams, apparent effort, attendance, anything else that seems relevant. Maybe even an indicator of change in performance over the course of the year or semester would be helpful; there&#8217;s definitely a big difference between a student who settled for C&#8217;s consistently throughout the year and a student who struggled and improved closer to the end of the year.</p>
<p>In general though, even with such a system, so much relies on the teacher. If we&#8217;re going to ask for more specific grading systems, we need more of them, and &#8220;better&#8221; ones, whatever that means.</p>
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